Talk:François Hollande: Difference between revisions

This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography: Politics and Government C‑class This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as High-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. France C‑class High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Politics C‑class High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Socialism C‑class High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the François Hollande article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 90 days

Currently this page features a section devoted to this policies, but no section on his actual presidency, what he has achieved and what he has done. Many new activities should be discussed, including how the implementation of the millionaire tax worked out (and its subsequent ruling as unconstitutional by the French court), and how initiation of the campaign in Mali. This section should be added asap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.164.112.167 (talk) 23:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

<<The surname "Hollande" is "believed to come from Calvinist ancestors who escaped the Netherlands in the 16th century and took the name of their old country.">> The article of the Guardian probably cites the article by Mme Elkaïm without controlling the information. Mme Elkaïm does not seem to have any idea about the European wars of religion. Protestantism developped much more in the North of the Netherlands (including Holland), than in the south (including Flanders). I wonder why a a calvinist family from the north of the former Netherlands (Holland), where protestantism was already the main religion, would have emigrated to the more catholic Artois (the south of the former Netherlands : now in France). The ancester of F. Hollande, according to this article, settled in Arras a very catholic city, that remained faithful to the king of Spain, where the Union of Arras was signed up in 1579. It does not make sense. And then, they would have converted to catholicism. What a logic ! First they left a country (Holland) where protestantism was the main religion, because they wanted to stay protestant (if I understand the article), to a more catholic one. I suppose they hoped to be slaughtered, and finally, despite the fact they left their native country for religious reasons (according to this article), they would have converted to catholicism...Concerning the history of the Netherlands, the northern countries (Seven Provinces, including Holland) made secession from the southern countries (the Ten Provinces, with Flanders) in 1581, precisely because protestantism was the dominating religion in the north and catholicism in the south. These journalists, I guess, confuse different things. After the suppression of the edict of Nantes in the 17th century, about 50 000 French calvinists (Huguenots) flew to the Seven Provinces. That is exactly the opposite ! More probably Hollande is the frenchification of the Flemish nickname Holland (or Yiddish Hollander ?), that is widespread surname in the French Flander (today département Nord and département Pas-de-Calais), just check this Holland [1] and Hollande [2] The fact there are only recorded in the 16th century is not surprising : that is the same thing for almost all the surnames in France. The name Holland(e) probably existed there, in the north of France, in the Middle Ages and means somebody who travelled to Holland, or who used to trade with it or who is from Holland.Nortmannus (talk) 16:54, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• While all that may be the case, numerous important reliable sources report the information about his Dutch ancestors, and I've found nothing in a reliable source to the contrary. It's certainly not irrelevant. As to its accuracy, we're now giving the information as an exact cited quotation, and I think this is the correct way to handle it under the teachings of WP:V. If another reliable source exists that questions the information, we could include that as well.--Arxiloxos (talk) 17:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What do you call a reliable source ? Something totally contradictory and against the facts stated by the historians and all logical arguments (for me clearly stupid) ? Such sources you call relevant, are certainly not those from historians and I would like to see Hollande's genealogical table or pedigree that really shows a real connection between F. Hollande and the Netherlands. A journalist citing a journalist citing another journalist Serge Raffy mentioning vague genealogists is not a reliable source for me, because I do not see any involvment of serious historians. Th oldest trustable record of Hollande's ancester dates back the beginning of the XVIIth century and nothing shows a connection with the Netherlands. We do not even know where the first well identified ancester Bon Hollande was born, but we can suppose he was born in Artois and his wife Marie Lemaire too.

Bon HOLLANDE (± 1617-????)
x Marie LEMAIRE (± 1617-????)
│
├─> Marie Catherine HOLLANDE (± 1625-????)
│   x ? COQUEL
│
└─> Jean HOLLANDE (± 1647 à Vis-en-Artois – ????), laboureur
    x (± 1676) Marie Madeleine PETIT (vers 1650-????)
    │
    ├─> Marie Françoise HOLLANDE (± 1677 à Rémy – before 1715 at Lécluse)
    │   x (01/07/1702) Antoine François DUBOIS (± 1677 à Lécluse – 11/07/1761 at Lécluse), censier lieutenant de Lécluse, mayeur
    │
    └─> Jean HOLLANDE (± 1690 at Rémy – ± 1730 at Rémy), maréchal-ferrant, laboureur, censier
        x (± 1716 at Rémy) Marie Rose COUPPÉ30 (1708 at Rémy – 1753)

The legend of a protestant ancester seems to be the invention of Serge Raffy, journalist, scriptwriter (= inventor of stories) and not historian at all. Nortmannus (talk) 21:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I found this quote from an Israeli newspaper;

"Royal's main presumed Jewish connection is Francois Hollande, the secretary general of the French Socialist Party, who is her partner (they are not married) and the father of their four children. But Hollande has no community ties and keeps his presumed Jewish origins so secret that Jewish friends of the couple say he always evades questions on the subject." - The Jerusalem Report, 2 April 2007.

Now, I don't want to hear any patronising Masonic/American entry-level nonsense pertaining to this question; ie - "what does his ancestors religion have to do with anything?". There are many rumours on the internet that Hollande somehow has a Jewish ancestral connection, which should be noted in the article if true.

You can see hints of it in the shape of his face and some of his political sentiments, which a Catholic Frenchman would generally not associate with or make. It is not as obvious as Sarkozy or a Strauss-Khan, but there is something there and many people are talking about it. What is the definitive answer on this? The ancestry section makes no mention. I propose adding in a reference made to The Jerusalem Report. He has also spoken before the Grand Orient de France, an interesting fact which could be mentioned in the article. Is he a member? Matter of the Fact (talk) 15:59, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• This has been discussed and dismissed before. The "many rumors on the internet" are at highly questionable websites and without verifiable references to reliable sources there's no basis for any such edit. We certainly will not make an edit about Hollande based on an editor's perception of "the shape of his face". --Arxiloxos (talk) 19:09, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• "Now, I don't want to hear any patronising Masonic/American entry-level..." Well most of us don't want to hear from the sort of people who are obsessed with spotting Jewish ancestry on someone's face. I guess in life, you don't always get what you want. Mezigue (talk) 08:06, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

>> France - Africa's policeman?>> France: Out of Africa and back? >> Anti-Hollande protesters clash with police(Lihaas (talk) 16:50, 17 December 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

I disagree with Fillon's inclusion in the infobox. First, it is misleading as it gives the impression that Hollande and Fillon effectively worked together. Second, according to these 3 articles (in French, sorry), Fillon handed his resignation to Sarkozy on Mai 10th, 2012, with he and his government merely in charge of "dealing with the current affairs" until the 15th. What do you think? AurélieM 12:34, 1 January 2014 (UTC) - P.S. Happy New Year![reply]

Well, me again. I just realized it was a very recent edit that wasn't discussed beforehand. I guess I'll just revert it then. Never mind. AurélieM 21:41, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following presently appears in the Personal life section:

A voter by the name of Xavier Kemlin in early 2013 tried to question in court Trierweiler's status, and accused her of "recel de détournement de fonds".^[1][2] In late November 2013, the suit was deemed "non-classe" by judge Roger le Loire.^[3]

"Non-classe" is translated by Google Translate as simply "non-class", which I take to be a legal term, possibly meaning that Kemlin did not have legal standing to bring the question before the court(?). In any case the meaning can probably be guessed at well enough for a reader to at least conclude that the suit did not proceed.

But "Valérie Trierweiler accusée de recel de détournement de fonds" definitely requires a translation. Google renders this as "Valérie Trierweiler accused of concealing embezzlement", which may be a fair translation - or it may not be; Google Translate is not very reliable. Can any French speakers help with this? Milkunderwood (talk) 09:12, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

François Hollande
Hollande in 2013.

François Hollande
Hollande in 2012.