Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates: Difference between revisions
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:'''Comment''' I'm not opposing this blurb since it's ITN/R, but I think we should really have a discussion about how the current criteria mean that half our blurbs end up being sports events. ITN is definitely skewed in terms of news prevalence. [[User:Chaotic Enby|Chaotıċ<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(30deg)">Enby</span>]]([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#A55858">talk</span>]]) 22:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC) |
:'''Comment''' I'm not opposing this blurb since it's ITN/R, but I think we should really have a discussion about how the current criteria mean that half our blurbs end up being sports events. ITN is definitely skewed in terms of news prevalence. [[User:Chaotic Enby|Chaotıċ<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(30deg)">Enby</span>]]([[User talk:Chaotic Enby|<span style="color:#A55858">talk</span>]]) 22:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::Everyone's paranoid about ITN becoming a US/UK politics ticker, so instead we've chosen to become a 'disasters and sports ticker', vastly less useful for most people. For a section called 'In The News' we don't actually cover what's, you know, actually '''In The News''' very often. I think we need to have a discussion on making ITN actually useful for the general reader rather than strictly adhering to an extremely arbitrary criteria. [[User:PrecariousWorlds|PrecariousWorlds]] ([[User talk:PrecariousWorlds|talk]]) 22:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC) |
::Everyone's paranoid about ITN becoming a US/UK politics ticker, so instead we've chosen to become a 'disasters and sports ticker', vastly less useful for most people. For a section called 'In The News' we don't actually cover what's, you know, actually '''In The News''' very often. I think we need to have a discussion on making ITN actually useful for the general reader rather than strictly adhering to an extremely arbitrary criteria. [[User:PrecariousWorlds|PrecariousWorlds]] ([[User talk:PrecariousWorlds|talk]]) 22:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::Firstly, if you want to propose a change, go to [[WT:ITN]] and propose it. See if you get consensus. Complaining on individual nominations isn't particularly helpful and definitely won't result in any sort of change. Secondly, sports stories are in the news - most media feature them quite prominently and in general they are of interest to a large swathe of the population too. The cricket world cup has [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-30&pages=Cricket_World_Cup|2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war exceeded the page views] of the Israel-Hamas war by a large margin for the whole of the last month. And of all the sports events to be annoyed about, this is an odd one - the cricket world cup is really a big deal. in India in particular, the world's most populated country, this event is the single most significant sporting fixture on the calendar, ahead of anything else. — [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 22:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC) |
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==== RD: Sanjay Gadhvi==== |
==== RD: Sanjay Gadhvi==== |
Revision as of 22:55, 19 November 2023
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This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.
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All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
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Voicing an opinion on an itemFormat your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do...
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Archives
November 19
November 19, 2023
(Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Politics and elections
Sports
|
RD: Rosalynn Carter
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, Carter Center, NY Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Mooonswimmer (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A bit of sourcing work and verification needed, but article is quite well-written and well-referenced Mooonswimmer 20:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
This may be premature. She is still alive as far as I can tell.-Ad Orientem (talk) 20:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)- Check the news? Like the Washington Post? nableezy - 20:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yep. I see this is just breaking. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- PBS and NBC are now reporting her death, I’ll update the source. The Kip 20:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Beat you to it, sorry. nableezy - 20:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Check the news? Like the Washington Post? nableezy - 20:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Weak Support Article is mostly well-cited (I spotted 1 CN tag) and has more than adequate coverage. Sad to see her go. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 20:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Fixed CN tag on children; we should work on finding citations for awards before posting though ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 20:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose as the Awards & Honors section is mostly unsourced. That's the only place where I'm seeing a problem (there's one lone CN tag early on but that should be easy to fix. --Masem (t) 20:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - fixed most of the cn tags, one left but shouldnt hold anything up imo. nableezy - 20:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - Couple quick fixes need to be done, but apart from that the article looks good to go. Terribly sad loss. Praying for President Carter. estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality I have added cn tags in the Awards and honours section. Before we get carried away by emotions the article must be fixed. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- In any case, I also oppose blurb. _-_Alsor (talk) 22:10, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Quality issues aside, I’d support going beyond just RD and blurbing. BhamBoi (talk) 21:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Why blurb? What impact did she have on the world at large? Certainly not as much of an impact as someone like Ladybird Johnson or Nancy Reagen, and even those we'd not blurb. Masem (t) 22:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- To be entirely honest, I'm not really familiar with her work, but I just figured that since she received so much coverage upon her death, a blurb might have been worthwhile. But it seems as though that's a minority opinion so I'll concede to the consensus and withdraw my suggestion of a blurb. BhamBoi (talk) 22:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Why blurb? What impact did she have on the world at large? Certainly not as much of an impact as someone like Ladybird Johnson or Nancy Reagen, and even those we'd not blurb. Masem (t) 22:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Now that the matter has been raised, Oppose Blurb: old woman dies. I said I would oppose blurbing Jimmy Carter; of course I'm not going to support blurbing Rosalynn. JM (talk) 22:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support article does look sufficient. --TheSandDoctor Talk 22:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality as the Awards and honours section is still very unsourced. Once quality issues are fixed, support RD, neutral on blurb - depends on the level of media attention given to her death (state funeral, etc.) ChaotıċEnby(talk) 22:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Provisional support for RD once the 6 citation tags are resolved. Polyamorph (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Nicaragua Miss Universe
Blurb: Sheynnis Palacios of Nicaragua is crowned winner of Miss Universe 2023. (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:
- Nominated by 37.252.92.113 (talk · give credit)
37.252.92.113 (talk) 13:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per PrecariousWorlds below JM (talk) 19:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per PrecariousWorlds. The Kip 20:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support These sorts of stories are underrepresented on ITN, and the article is of a good quality (only one CN tag). - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 20:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Beauty contests have become a event of questionable merit (even if they have tried to move away from the sexualation of women) and thus not the type of thing we'd want to cover at ITN. --Masem (t) 20:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per above. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per Masem. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 22:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Nivaragua OAS
Blurb: Nicaragua officially leaves the Organization of American States. (Post)
News source(s): [2]
Credits:
- Nominated by 37.252.92.113 (talk · give credit)
37.252.92.113 (talk) 13:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- 2 Nicaragua Blurbs, 1 Oppose - Unfortunately I don't think this is garnering significant coverage/attention and Nicaragua leaving doesn't seem to have much impact. We also don't usually blurb Miss Universe contests, so Oppose to both PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per above vote. The Kip 20:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality OAS' article is not in good condition and some work is needed. A country leaving a major international organisation such as the OAS (economically, politically and diplomatically relevant) is ITNR worthy. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:34, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose solely on article quality per Alsor. The OAS article is in rough shape for referencing and would require a lot of work before it could be promoted on the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support on notability per Alsor. Quality must be addressed JM (talk) 20:52, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) Cricket World Cup
Blurb: In cricket, Australia defeat India in the final to win the World Cup. (Post)
Alternative blurb: The Cricket World Cup concludes with Australia defeating India in the final.
News source(s): ESPNcricinfo
Credits:
- Nominated by 37.252.92.113 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by MNWiki845 (talk · give credit) and Black Kite (talk · give credit)
Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
37.252.92.113 (talk) 13:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Match is still going on. PrinceofPunjab (talk) 15:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Australia have won, in an upset. Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Match finished. Congrats Australia on the win. 1solo2 (talk) 16:26, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Prose for the match added, also ENGVAR altblurb. Black Kite (talk) 17:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Australia has won the 2023 Cricket World Cup in one of the biggest upsets in cricket history. India Waalaa (talk) 18:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - the usual issue of a table within a table for the "route to the final" section, which is a MOS:ACCESS violation. Once that's dealt with, good to go. As an aside, I'd hardly describe it as "one of the biggest upsets in cricket history" as stated above... India were favourites on home soil, but anyone who follows cricket will know that you never write Australia off, and this is their sixth title now. Colour me not excessively surprised! — Amakuru (talk) 18:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted. I've fixed the above ACCESS issue myself, and no other issues - it's ITN/R, good prose and support !votes here. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 19:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. I'm surprised this was posted so quickly - both articles need proper updating - there are paragraphs in both which are in the present or future tenses rather than the past. Bcp67 (talk) 19:57, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Only the bolded article is required to conform to quality considerations, and I didn't see anything terrible there myself. I agree it's a fairly bare-bones article at present, definitely start class, but that's all it needs to be for ITN as long as there aren't missing references, orange tags or an absence of prose about the actual news item itself. Where are the present/future paragraphs you mention? Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 21:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not opposing this blurb since it's ITN/R, but I think we should really have a discussion about how the current criteria mean that half our blurbs end up being sports events. ITN is definitely skewed in terms of news prevalence. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 22:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Everyone's paranoid about ITN becoming a US/UK politics ticker, so instead we've chosen to become a 'disasters and sports ticker', vastly less useful for most people. For a section called 'In The News' we don't actually cover what's, you know, actually In The News very often. I think we need to have a discussion on making ITN actually useful for the general reader rather than strictly adhering to an extremely arbitrary criteria. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Firstly, if you want to propose a change, go to WT:ITN and propose it. See if you get consensus. Complaining on individual nominations isn't particularly helpful and definitely won't result in any sort of change. Secondly, sports stories are in the news - most media feature them quite prominently and in general they are of interest to a large swathe of the population too. The cricket world cup has exceeded the page views of the Israel-Hamas war by a large margin for the whole of the last month. And of all the sports events to be annoyed about, this is an odd one - the cricket world cup is really a big deal. in India in particular, the world's most populated country, this event is the single most significant sporting fixture on the calendar, ahead of anything else. — Amakuru (talk) 22:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Everyone's paranoid about ITN becoming a US/UK politics ticker, so instead we've chosen to become a 'disasters and sports ticker', vastly less useful for most people. For a section called 'In The News' we don't actually cover what's, you know, actually In The News very often. I think we need to have a discussion on making ITN actually useful for the general reader rather than strictly adhering to an extremely arbitrary criteria. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: Sanjay Gadhvi
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits:
- Nominated by Fahads1982 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Fahads1982 (talk) 13:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
November 18
November 18, 2023
(Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
|
RD: Daisaku Ikeda
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Death announced 19 November. Thriley (talk) 20:44, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: David Del Tredici
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American composer. Winner of the Pulitzer Prize for Music and was a Guggenheim and Woodrow Wilson fellow. Thriley (talk) 15:57, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
(Closed) SpaceX Starship
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: SpaceX Starship launches, becoming the most powerful rocket in history. (Post)
Alternative blurb: SpaceX Starship launches before losing communication, becoming the most powerful rocket ever launched
Alternative blurb II: SpaceX successfully launches Starship to orbit, before losing communication.
Credits:
- Nominated by PrecariousWorlds (talk · give credit)
The most powerful rocket ever launched. In the last test flight, the ship exploded before reaching orbit or even separating. In this test flight, all 33 engines survived (the most amount of engines ever on a rocket), a brand new hot-staging system managed to successfully separate Starship and Super Heavy, and orbit was reached. An incredible milestone in the history of human flight, not to mention being front page news almost everywhere. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support once article quality improves a bit (more information is being released). Clearly ITN and despite the test not reaching all of it's stated objectives, it's a huge achievement which represents a significant milestone towards colonizing the solar system. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not opposed to posting any sort of space exploration items on ITN, but given the grand picture of what would be required, I have a hard time reading your claim of a significant milestone as anything other than hyperbole. Perhaps you could elaborate further on your point and on how you perceive the significance of this item. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- SpaceX Starship is the largest and most powerful rocket in history by virtually every metric, and is set to return humans to the Moon as part of the Artemis program. This is a big step forward in spaceflight. Not only that, but the amount of news coverage alone and reader interest is enough to make this notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- It's a rocket that has yet to succeed and hasn't actually taken a payload; its capabilities for doing almost everything promised are still on-paper; very much the "hyperbole" that Walt mentioned. By which metric, no, it's far, far from the "most powerful," since Sea Dragon comes to mind... Or any of the post-Apollo Nova concepts. Raw coverage & interest alone doesn't merit posting every single failure; this is ITN, not a corporate press release office. - Nottheking (talk) 17:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Sea Dragon was a concept and never actually built so I don't really see the comparison here since we just witnessed the largest rocket ever built fly to space. The stated primary objectives of this launch was to have a successful launch and separation of the second stage reaching orbit. While the orbit wasn't completed, SpaceX always sets the bar high for tests to push their engineering teams to deliver iterative improvements on each flight. https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-second-test-launch-nasa-congratulations -- while many news outlets are calling this a failure, many experts see this flight as a success.
- Obviously this flight is not being promoted as a success by MSM, and I can't speak to why they would put spin on this story. Nevertheless, I'll be interested for the ITN posting in the event they hit every objective. I predict many of the objections to it will be based on, "nothing new to see here, they've already done most of these things." I suppose we can just wait and see. Kcmastrpc (talk) 01:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Sea Dragon was a concept and never actually built so I don't really see the comparison here since we just witnessed the largest rocket ever built fly to space. The stated primary objectives of this launch was to have a successful launch and separation of the second stage reaching orbit. While the orbit wasn't completed, SpaceX always sets the bar high for tests to push their engineering teams to deliver iterative improvements on each flight. https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-second-test-launch-nasa-congratulations -- while many news outlets are calling this a failure, many experts see this flight as a success.
- It's a rocket that has yet to succeed and hasn't actually taken a payload; its capabilities for doing almost everything promised are still on-paper; very much the "hyperbole" that Walt mentioned. By which metric, no, it's far, far from the "most powerful," since Sea Dragon comes to mind... Or any of the post-Apollo Nova concepts. Raw coverage & interest alone doesn't merit posting every single failure; this is ITN, not a corporate press release office. - Nottheking (talk) 17:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- SpaceX Starship is the largest and most powerful rocket in history by virtually every metric, and is set to return humans to the Moon as part of the Artemis program. This is a big step forward in spaceflight. Not only that, but the amount of news coverage alone and reader interest is enough to make this notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not opposed to posting any sort of space exploration items on ITN, but given the grand picture of what would be required, I have a hard time reading your claim of a significant milestone as anything other than hyperbole. Perhaps you could elaborate further on your point and on how you perceive the significance of this item. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Most of the articles that I see covering this say that it exploded shortly after reaching space, and considered a failure. eg [3], [4]. Masem (t) 14:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Also not seeing how ITNR works here. This was the second test of that rocket model, so even granting that SpaceX being its own "country", that first ITNR for space exploration doesn't work. Masem (t) 14:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm... - As Masem said, the spacecraft went kablooey again. Now if that was understood and considered to be part of the mission objectives, then okay; but from what I understood, one of the primary objectives was to conduct a partial orbit and it was not able to reach orbit insertion. The mission profile was an hour and a half long, and it got only eight minutes into its flight plan. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Needs work Per the FT, it seems reasonable to say that it reached space but claiming orbit seems too much as it self-destructed before crossing the Atlantic. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Removed mention of orbit and success to avoid controversy. Regardless of this, it's still incredibly notable and arguably ITN/R PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- @PrecariousWorlds: Could you please explain why you think this is ITN/R? It doesn't fit any of the three criteria for spacecraft:
- A country conducting its first successful indigenous orbital launch
- The launch of space stations or installation of new major components thereof
- Arrival of spacecraft (to lunar orbit and beyond) at their destinations
- ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 18:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oops. I didn't realise that 'First and last launches of any type of rocket' was removed from ITN/R. My bad PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:53, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Also as it's been pointed out a few times already, today's test wasn't the first launch anyway. - Nottheking (talk) 22:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- But it was the first to actually reach space.2A00:23C8:B00:AD01:F081:843D:6379:C90D (talk) 10:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Also as it's been pointed out a few times already, today's test wasn't the first launch anyway. - Nottheking (talk) 22:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oops. I didn't realise that 'First and last launches of any type of rocket' was removed from ITN/R. My bad PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:53, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- @PrecariousWorlds: Could you please explain why you think this is ITN/R? It doesn't fit any of the three criteria for spacecraft:
- Removed mention of orbit and success to avoid controversy. Regardless of this, it's still incredibly notable and arguably ITN/R PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Personally I don't see another exploding unmanned spaceship as being that significant. We're still in the test phase. Let's wait until something is actually achieved. Nigej (talk) 17:00, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose, also Not ITN/R How is this substantially different from the first flight test? Getting all 33 engines to light & separated appears to be all that changed from the first test flight. Which also brings to the point of claiming ITN/R; if we go and check, we see just three criteria:
- A country conducting its first successful indigenous orbital launch
- The launch of space stations or installation of new major components thereof
- Arrival of spacecraft (to lunar orbit and beyond) at their destinations
- This does not fit under any such category. While I am assuming good faith that the poster thought that a deprecated criteria still existed, ("first and last launch of any rocket") this likewise isn't even the first such test. Since we have prior events to go on, it wouldn't be surprising if this is followed by yet more failed tests in 2024; posting this would basically indicate that Wikipedia intends to post every single failure, at which point ITN becomes more of a press release office for a private company. - Nottheking (talk) 17:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per the two votes above. Unmanned launches aren’t much of a milestone anymore, and it’s not even the first test of this specific rocket. The Kip 17:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Already posted the launch of the rocket system once (probably should not have) and nothing significant enough has happened to denote every minor error correction from the former on ITN. Gotitbro (talk) 19:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose: the flight was not successful, and no major records (such as "largest non-nuclear explosion") were set. The only records set on this flight were "most engines ever lit at takeoff" and "tallest rocket ever launched". It didn't achieve the primary mission objectives, so the Saturn V still holds the title of "largest rocket ever successfully launched". --Carnildo (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Very weak support: I'd like to see ITN include more things like this which are actually in the news around the world even if not earth-shatteringly significant, rather than the usual diet of death, destruction, and sports news. It needs more balance and more light, and this is something that has got people talking, made headlines around the world and seems as good a place as any to start improving ITN. 2A02:C7E:30F9:A600:45E2:C463:2CAC:15B0 (talk) 20:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Not every single SpaceX rocket launch needs to be ITN. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 20:52, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Space X has made over 80 launches so far this year so we're nowhere near reporting every one of them. See List of Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launches for details. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Another SpaceX launch and nothing really of significant significance. Centuries123 (talk) 01:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb it when it actually does something. JM (talk) 02:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per above - simply not notable enough for ITN, maybe once it's actually successful? Iamstillqw3rty (talk) 04:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: Karl Tremblay
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Journal de Québec
Credits:
- Nominated by Roncanada (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Roncanada (talk) 05:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: Gohar Ayub Khan
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The News
Credits:
- Nominated by Fahads1982 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Fahads1982 (talk) 02:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Article needs ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
(Closed) ChatGPT maker OpenAI ousted its own founder from the company
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Sam Altman, a founder of OpenAI which created ChatGPT, was ousted by the company as CEO. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, Washington Post, BBC, Reuters / Bloomberg
Credits:
- Nominated by HolyCrocsEmperor (talk · give credit)
- Created by ElijahPepe (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Oppose Not the first and certainly wont be the last founder of a company to be ousted. Don't see the importance that would warrant a posting. Noah, AATalk 03:12, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - big news in the tech world, but unless we know WHY he was ousted, I don't see any reason to post this. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose provincial This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Wait until we find out why he was ousted, as per Rockstone. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Per Rockstone Equalwidth (C) 09:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Procedural oppose substandard blurb. not written in the correct tense and its written as two sentences. Substantive oppose changes of CEO are not significant enough for ITN. JM (talk) 11:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support the advent of AI is the biggest and likely final event in the history of the humanity, and he's at the forefront. --5.44.170.53 (talk) 13:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose not that relevant. Business affairs, being business affairs. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support I'm reopening this discussion because details are now emerging and it seems not to be just a routine power-struggle or money-grab. For example, see this NYT report: "Ilya Sutskever, a respected A.I. researcher who co-founded OpenAI with Mr. Altman and nine other people, was increasingly worried that OpenAI’s technology could be dangerous and that Mr. Altman was not paying enough attention to that risk..." As AI is an existential risk for humanity, such governance issues are highly significant. Also, as OpenAI was founded as a non-profit and is still controlled by its board, its governance will be of special interest here, as Wikipedia has a similar structure and goal. For more details, see the most recent sources such as Details emerge... Andrew🐉(talk) 10:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support; pushing a startup founder out because the board believed they were focused too much on growth and not enough on safety and ethics is a significant story, and warrants inclusion on the main page. BilledMammal (talk) 10:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose run of the mill story
, only minor coverage in the articles linked. Polyamorph (talk) 11:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- There is now an article about the specific event. I have updated the nomination to focus on this rather than the more general articles. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment on coverage striken, still not convinced of the significance though. Polyamorph (talk) 12:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Why is there a standalone article on this!?!? Failure of NOT#NEWS and NEVENT. Masem (t) 13:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Let's get the creator's input... Andrew🐉(talk) 13:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Then take said article to AFD. BangJan1999 16:44, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- We do not literally have to wait years to write an event article in order to satisfy those policies. Mach61 (talk) 17:23, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Pretty massive advent with AI, starting to look like a big deal. Lukt64 (talk) 18:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Corporate leadership changes aren’t ITNR-level, even if it’s a media-darling subject like AI. Discussion shouldn’t have been reopened, but it’s par the course for who did. The Kip 20:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose they just removed him from his position. That's basically it. There's nothing here that will change many people's lives. TomMasterRealTALK 20:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
November 17
November 17, 2023
(Friday)
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(Posted) RD: Claude Kahn
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio France
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
- Created by LouisAlain (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: French pianist who founded a competition in his name in 1970, and a conservatory the following year. Plenty of obits in French, with similar content, little in English (so far). The article was mostly there but undersourced. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
(Closed) Everton F.C.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Everton F.C. receive a 10-point deduction from the Premier League, the biggest in the competition’s history. (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Equalwidth (talk · give credit)
- Oppose The blurb doesn't explain this and neither does the article update. It seems that it has something to do with the club losing money but it's a curious sport that penalises you for that. Me, I'm more interested in the 10 grid penalty given to Carlos Sainz in the Las Vegas Grand Prix but so it goes... Andrew🐉(talk) 09:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose How is it "obviously" needed? It's one team losing points in a country-wide competition. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 10:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose no bolded article, no article about the topic, the only line about this in either article is one single line within a large unrelated section of the first article, a non-ITN/R sporting event... and isn't notable enough for ITN. JM (talk) 11:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose It's one point more than the previous record for Portsmouth in 2010, so the headlines of biggest deduction in history are true but not groundbreaking. [6] We still don't know if it will be enough to take Everton down in May next year, and that's not a notable thing either as three teams go down every year. The real thing will be whether the 115 charges against Manchester City are proven and whether they are stripped of all their trophies in that timeframe. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. Simply doesn’t meet the bar for ITN blurbing. The Kip 17:38, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. WP:SNOW? Moscow Mule (talk) 20:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Agree with WP:SNOW. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 20:53, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
2023 Liberian general election
Blurb: Joseph Boakai (pictured) is elected President of Liberia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Joseph Boakai (pictured) is elected President of Liberia in the runoff, defeating incumbent president George Weah.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
- Nominated by BastianMAT (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Number 57 (talk · give credit) and Scu ba (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Incumbent has conceded, remarkably well run for a run-off in Liberia as EU described it. BastianMAT (talk) 23:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support, especially alt blurb Hoping for a peaceful transfer of power! Article seems in pretty good shape, although I'm guessing it's time to add an Aftermath or Reactions section! (As right now it finishes with the table-heavy results, maybe a bit of prose or analysis by sources?) ChaotıċEnby(talk) 01:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. Altblurb looks better. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support original blurb ITN/R, good enought article, original blurb is more concise JM (talk) 02:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support altblurb (Weah name recognition). I added a line of prose before the results table, but more could still be said. Moscow Mule (talk) 02:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support alt blurb. Makes sense to point out that the incumbent was defeated here. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support altblurb change of head of gov is ITN/R, and article seems adequate This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:35, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Poor quality. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support original blurb. Quality is not great, but OK. Polyamorph (talk) 09:16, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose quality is far from being ok. The results section needs more prose and there is no section on reactions and afrermath. Especially considering the historical post-election violence that has existed in the country. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality per Alsor. The Kip 17:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment In the results section, only the presidential runoff has prose. Given that this is about the presidential part of this election, I don’t see this as a showstopper. It is, however, of concern that there isn’t a reaction or aftermath section. Schwede66 16:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
November 16
November 16, 2023
(Thursday)
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(Posted) RD: A. S. Byatt
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:
- Nominated by Moscow Mule (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit), Proscribe (talk · give credit) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
English writer. Her article is lengthy and well referenced. Moscow Mule (talk) 16:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support The article is surprisingly in good shape for an in-depth one. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support A notable writer, a fine article. Trepang2 (talk) 20:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support per above. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 00:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment excessive use of quotes (MOS:QUOTE) lifted from the Guardian article [7] Polyamorph (talk) 11:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Support Just found out—Ōe, Amis, McCarthy, Kundera, now A. S. Byatt. The article is in good shape and can be posted.Didn't see above comment since I was on mobile. Article needs work Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 17:52, 18 November 2023 (UTC)- Posted Stephen 22:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: Thomas J. Bliley Jr.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WTVR
Credits:
- Nominated by Curbon7 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Mohamad Darilin (talk · give credit) and Normantas Bataitis (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former congressman and mayor from Richmond, Virginia. Needs source work and prose expansion. Curbon7 (talk) 22:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Article needs more sources. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 04:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) Pedro Sánchez reelected as Spain's prime minister
Blurb: Pedro Sánchez is re-elected as the prime minister of Spain following the 2023 Spanish general election in July. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Four months after the July 2023 general election, Pedro Sánchez is reelected as the prime minister of Spain.
Alternative blurb II: Pedro Sánchez is re-elected as the prime minister of Spain, after making a deal that extended amnesty to members of the Catalan independence movement.
News source(s): [8][9][10][11]
Credits:
- Nominated by Estar8806 (talk · give credit)
- Created by Impru20 (talk · give credit)
Normally I wouldn't nominate something like this as I would probably consider it to have been covered by the posting for the election. The election was posted in July [12], but it rolled off of ITN after a couple hours. Changes in head of government are also WP:ITN/R, though not as part of a general election, hence I didn't list this as ITN/R. Though, considering that it's been several months since the general election and the article for that rolled off relatively quickly, I figured this should have a chance. estar8806 (talk) ★ 23:00, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support, excellent article and we haven't had a blurb in over a week. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 23:41, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support per above Lukt64 (talk) 23:43, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Extremely Weak Support Taking note that Sanchez's BLP makes no reference to the scandalous circumstances under which he was able to secure the needed support to remain in power. That's a huge miss in an article about a head of government. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. The govt formation article is good enough, and a clean-shaven gent in a nice shirt and tie could replace Mr. Nascar / Wabash / Ford Motor Co. Moscow Mule (talk) 00:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- If image change is all that is wanted, the Myanmar article has some. And do not really a problem enough with Blaney to base of the notability of this on that alone. Gotitbro (talk) 04:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- No, I wasn't supporting the Sánchez nom just to get rid of Blaney; the story of the four-month negotiations and the PSOE succeeding where the PP couldn't stands on its own merits. And there's an AltBlurb still to be written that succinctly captures that. Moscow Mule (talk) 13:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- If image change is all that is wanted, the Myanmar article has some. And do not really a problem enough with Blaney to base of the notability of this on that alone. Gotitbro (talk) 04:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - we posted this as part of a general election, and the head of government did not, in fact, change, because he was reelected. --RockstoneSend me a message! 03:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Yes, Pedro Sánchez was and still is PM of Spain, but I think this story is more then just about Sánchez, it's about a multi-month government formation. I'd be fine redacting the mention of the election itself for this reason. And, as much as I hate to be the guy who pulls this card, but I think the slow news cycle does make this a little more reasonable to post. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:46, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Support alt1Support Alt2; just because it's ITN/R to post an election OR appointment of a PM doesn't mean we can't post the end of the months-long struggle for the reelection of a PM outside of ITN/R. JM (talk) 06:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support alt government formation months after election, will be of interest to readers. Polyamorph (talk) 06:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose blurbs The currently proposed blurbs give the impression that this is just business as usual. But when we ran this before, we posted the picture of a different party leader because their party got the most votes. And so the King gave them the first crack at forming a government but their vote of confidence failed to pass. Sanchez then got a chance and the real news is that he's got further by doing a controversial deal with Catalan separatists. So, any blurb for this needs to summarise why our previous selection didn't work out and how this one has. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support This was pretty big news, but as the above comments mention, it's mostly notable because of the investiture coalition he formed. I'd propose ALT2 "Pedro Sánchez is reelected as the prime minister of Spain, after making a deal that extended amnesty to members of the Catalan independence movement". --Grnrchst (talk) 09:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
OpposeNeither the blurb nor the article itself actually covers the controversial circumstances surrounding his re-election - and if you look at the news stories, that is ITN rather than the re-election itself. Black Kite (talk) 10:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- The nominated article is quite extensive and includes sections such as 2023 Spanish government formation#Reactions to amnesty and PSOE–Junts alliance. What more are you expecting? Andrew🐉(talk) 11:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support ALT 2 per @Grnrchst. The formation of the government is notable in addition to the election itself (already posted) - but it is only notable because of the historic nature of the deal made. That's what is ITN worthy and it therefore needs to be in the blurb. FlipandFlopped ツ 15:49, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Very undecided I've never been in favour of blurbing the results of the same electoral process first and then who has become prime minister. I'm not convinced by the idea of including something about amnesty in the blurb. There is no doubt that the amnesty proposal has generated a worsening of the tension and mistrust in the country (the rejection of the most important associations of judges and magistrates, bar associations, state lawyers and other actors involved in the Spanish judiciary; the subtle request for a coup d'état by more than 50 retired military commanders and the recent riots in the streets of Madrid), but it's just a political investiture agreement that, I believe, will not have much of a future (absolute majority in the Senate of the opposition party and a possible challenge before the Constitutional Court). Perhaps we can talk about it if it becomes a reality... _-_Alsor (talk) 18:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted ALT2. The blurb is quite long and I encourage further discussion regarding shortening that. Schwede66 22:11, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe we could change "after making a deal that extended amnesty to members of the Catalan independence movement" to "after extending amnesty to Catalan independentists"? Same information content but slightly shorter. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 22:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- "Separatists" would be a better (and shorter) word than the somewhat unusual "independentists". Black Kite (talk) 00:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've changed it to read "after extending amnesty to [[Catalan independence movement|Catalan separatists]]". Schwede66 00:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- "Separatists" would be a better (and shorter) word than the somewhat unusual "independentists". Black Kite (talk) 00:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe we could change "after making a deal that extended amnesty to members of the Catalan independence movement" to "after extending amnesty to Catalan independentists"? Same information content but slightly shorter. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 22:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Current blurb is okay except I think it wasn't worth it to remove "making a deal" for the sake of brevity, readers who aren't familiar with parliamentary systems might read this as some weird non-NPOV point we've decided to make. Maybe change to something like,
Pedro Sánchez is re-elected as the prime minister of Spain, in a coalition agreement that extends amnesty to Catalan separatists.
Davey2116 (talk) 01:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)- Support this proposed revision JM (talk) 01:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support, makes it more clear how the parliamentary coalition process worked. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 10:48, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - Why was this posted? I don't think there was consensus for it. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 04:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Even with a simple number count, at the time you added this comment the discussion was at 10-3-1. I would also say that there are only two true opposes, with the other concerned only with the blurb formulation, versus only one "extremely weak support". I see a clear consensus and endorse Schwede66's post. Ed [talk] [OMT] 05:23, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - the current blurb is highly confusing. It says he was re-elected, yet the article linked is about government formation. The election was ages ago and we already posted it. Should be reworded to reflect what's actually in the news, i.e. That he made a deal and has now formed a coalition etc. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 07:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- He was not re-elected as PM in the general election, because PMs are not elected in general elections. He was re-elected in the sense that the Cortes Generales finally approve of him being PM again after months of failures. JM (talk) 11:23, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: Ken Squier
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [13], [14]
Credits:
- Nominated by thrashbandicoot01 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American motorsports announcer best known for his longstanding affiliation with NASCAR.
Needs expansion. thrashbandicoot01 (talk) 14:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Neville Garrick
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [15]
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Polyamorph (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Needs expansion. Polyamorph (talk) 06:19, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Oppose. Article is a basically a stub and is way too short for ITN.Looks better now. Changing to Support. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 11:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)- @Midori No Sora: started expanding. Polyamorph (talk) 16:44, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - I think it's good enough ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 17:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I've expanded it to
startC class. Polyamorph (talk) 18:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC) - Support, good work on the expansion! Looks good to go for posting. Tails Wx 15:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 22:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
November 15
November 15, 2023
(Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
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(Posted) RD: Worta McCaskill-Stevens
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [16]
Credits:
- Created and nominated by TJMSmith (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Shivasprogeny (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Physician-scientist and medical oncologist.
2023 Doda bus accident
Blurb: A bus crash kills 39 and injures 19 in Jammu and Kashmir, India. (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:
- Nominated by JM2023 (talk · give credit)
- Created by DSP2092 (talk · give credit)
A bus crash with a rather high fatality rate; it got its own article, and ITN is very un-dynamic right now. JM (talk) 05:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose At this stage, no clear indication this event will have long-term consequences, so a failure of NOTNEWS and NEVENT in creation of the article. Seems like an unfortunate accident but that's all. --Masem (t) 05:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per bus plunge and WP:NEWSEVENT. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment We have posted similar bus plunges recently, so am not sure why this one specifically is objectionable. Not posting bus plunges altogether is one thing, but it would be nice if we were consistent. Curbon7 (talk) 09:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- At this point I'm opposing bus plunges in general. ITN has a pretty skewed notion of what is or isn't notable. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 10:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Overall, WP has gotten far too excessive on covering small minor news events that do not have long term impacts or will not be a significant topic 10+ years from now, which is against NOT#NEWS and NEVENT. Things like these types of traffic accidents. We're trying to cull those back both across WP and at ITN. So consider this a WP:CCC type situation. (and why ITN guidelines say to not evoke "We posted X, not why Y?") Masem (t) 13:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Rwanda asylum plan
Blurb: The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom rules the government's Rwanda asylum plan to be unlawful. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Chaotic Enby (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Country-level politics, but with far reaching implications. Plus, we haven't had a new blurb in more than a week. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 00:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - "no new blurb in over a week" is a terrible justification for posting. --RockstoneSend me a message! 03:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Not necessarily in my opinion. WP:ITNPURPOSE:
[4] To emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource.
Wikipedia doesn't appear very dynamic right now if ITN is the measure. The newest blurb is a week old and the oldest is 2 weeks old. I feel that ITN newsworthiness standards may be able to be lowered slightly if they're so high that nothing at all gets posted for over a week. - (Not to say that this particular article should be posted -- I am neutral on that.) JM (talk) 04:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed. We have very arbitrary rules for what should be posted, to the point where we barely blurb anything useful to the average reader. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 05:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- +1 to both comments above. Ed [talk] [OMT] 05:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed. We have very arbitrary rules for what should be posted, to the point where we barely blurb anything useful to the average reader. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 05:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Not necessarily in my opinion. WP:ITNPURPOSE:
- Comment The Rwanda scheme has been dead for a while, this is just the final proverbial nail-in-the-coffin. Additionally, most of the legal objection seems to center on Rwanda not being stable rather than the idea of relocating asylum seekers to other countries, so I'm not sure the implications are broad in that sense. Curbon7 (talk) 04:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose for the reasons I give above. Curbon7 (talk) 21:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Run of the mill domestic politics and legal case -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- It was an international agreement of exchange between the UK and Rwanda, not merely a domestic affair. JM (talk) 04:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support: its the cancellation of an international cross-continental exchange program established by two national governments. And we need dynamism in ITN, not the same four blurbs for over a week straight. JM (talk) 04:55, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- We cannot force the creation of news so this dynamism argument is invalid. Masem (t) 05:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- We cannot force the creation of news, but I think we can lower the high high standards of newsworthiness at ITN just a little bit in order to have a corresponding raise in dynamism. This is the latter, not the former. JM (talk) 05:21, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- How are we forcing the creation of news? Is this not already on the front page of many significant news outlets? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 05:22, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- I am simply saying say that "ITN has been stale" is not a valid reason to promote blurbs. Nothing about this specific blurb, just the argument in general. Masem (t) 12:15, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed, but I do think there's a case to be made. The purpose of ITN is to direct viewers to relevant articles to current news items. Even if there's a slow news week, we should seek to keep up with current stories as much as possible, which could potentially mean lowering our (rather arbitrary I'd argue) standards of notability in order to best serve readers. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:46, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- I mean, news is happening in the world. It's not like the BBC's world news page hasn't posted anything this week. It just doesn't always measure up to what a few people here think "real news" is. WP:ITNSIGNIF says as much: "The consensus among those discussing the event is all that is necessary to decide if an event is significant enough for posting." So yeah, I'd say an assertion of enough importance + "ITN is stale" is an acceptable argument that's grounded right in WP:ITNPURPOSE. Ed [talk] [OMT] 20:53, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed, but I do think there's a case to be made. The purpose of ITN is to direct viewers to relevant articles to current news items. Even if there's a slow news week, we should seek to keep up with current stories as much as possible, which could potentially mean lowering our (rather arbitrary I'd argue) standards of notability in order to best serve readers. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:46, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- I am simply saying say that "ITN has been stale" is not a valid reason to promote blurbs. Nothing about this specific blurb, just the argument in general. Masem (t) 12:15, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- We cannot force the creation of news so this dynamism argument is invalid. Masem (t) 05:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - In The News, major international agreement. I do think that there is a good case @JM2023 is making here, while we shouldn't post this solely because the current blurbs are stale, it is a factor. We should keep up with what is in the news, even if its a slow news week (which is becoming an increasingly rare occurance these days lol). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 05:21, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support per JM. Polyamorph (talk) 05:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Migrant and refugee issues are ongoing everywhere. For example, Finland is closing its border with Russia for this reason. So, if we cover this, it should be done in a more general encyclopedic way, rather than cherry-picking one incident. And the UK ruling is not the last word as the government is now planning to pass emergency legislation and this will likely be tested by further legal action. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Good point. Perhaps there's some way we can combine all of these migration issues into a blurb? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Wouldn't that be WP:SYNTH? Just propose the Finland border closure as another blurb. JM (talk) 19:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- At this point I might just want to propose it, although I'm not sure it would fare too well. Something like the Rwanda asylum plan is on a much higher notability level than a "simple" border closing. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 01:08, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- I proposed the Indian bus crash knowing it would probably not get consensus to post just to give an oppurtunity for a new blurb, but it's up to you. I have no plans to propose it. JM (talk) 02:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- At this point I might just want to propose it, although I'm not sure it would fare too well. Something like the Rwanda asylum plan is on a much higher notability level than a "simple" border closing. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 01:08, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, I've looked at the article, it's not even a full border closing, only some checkpoints. That definitely can't be put on the same level, you can't use routine stuff to argue that a much more notable event is "cherry-picked". ChaotıċEnby(talk) 01:14, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Finland was given as an example because it had just been reported in the news. But it is not isolated and the point of the other source is that such events are widespread and common. For more examples, I just search the news to turn up the following reports from within the last 24 hours:
- Wouldn't that be WP:SYNTH? Just propose the Finland border closure as another blurb. JM (talk) 19:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Good point. Perhaps there's some way we can combine all of these migration issues into a blurb? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Andrew🐉(talk) 09:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- I understand that it was an example, no need to be condescending about it. My point was that it's a bad example, and that you can't just put anything related to refugees on the same level. What's newsworthy was the plan itself, not "something related to refugees happened", which is why you can't really compare it to random other examples.
- Two events aren't close to being of the same importance just because they both have "refugee" in the title. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 10:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- The nominated issue is quite minor as these things go. It concerned a flight of just seven people and the ruling was just an administrative issue: "there had not been a proper assessment of whether Rwanda was safe". So, the government will just make that assessment and back it up with further agreements and legislation as necessary. The operation will continue and the lawyers will continue to bicker about it but it's quite a small impact when you consider that about 1% of the world's population is displaced -- over 80 million people. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. This is a significant change in cross-continental policy. If this is not noteworthy enough for ITN, especially on a slow news week, I don't know what is. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 21:08, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per Ad Orientem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elisecars727 (talk • contribs) 21:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support, per JM's "just a little bit". Moscow Mule (talk) 01:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
RD: N. Sankaraiah
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Wire
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Indian Politican Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Thrown in a CN tag in the early years section. Rest of the article is sourced, but it won't hurt to expand it more. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 11:44, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Can you please a take look now.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:32, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Insufficient depth of coverage. More depth needed about political career, such as what he accomplished in the Tamil Nadu legislative assembly or with the Communist Party after 1964. SpencerT•C 05:53, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
November 14
November 14, 2023
(Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations
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|
RD: Arthur Simon
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [17]
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by HistoryTheorist (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Christian Pastor who founded Bread for the World. Article is a stub and needs expanding; I will attempt to help. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 02:47, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Peter Seidler
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [18]
Credits:
- Nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Muboshgu (talk • contribs) 19:43, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support His article is very sparse/basic, but it is fully sourced. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:02, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Patient made the majority of his wealth from his career at Seidler Equity Partners, but limited information about this part of his career is included in the article. SpencerT•C 15:32, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- His notability comes from owning the Padres. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:55, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Weak support While more info could be added in terms of his pre-Padres career, article is well sourced and not a stub. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 21:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Subrata Roy
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): IE
Credits:
- Nominated by The Herald (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Indian businessman who founded Sahara India Pariwar.The Herald (Benison) (talk) 19:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Well sourced. Enough prose. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 19:05, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Date and place of birth is sourced by Medium.com, which is WP:RSPSOURCES. Schwede66 21:20, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Schwede66: Someone else added another source for the birthdate. I've removed the Medium source, and tagged the birthplace. Seems one (or even a few) unsourced statements shouldn't preclude posting. —Bagumba (talk) 09:23, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 15:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Ociel Baena
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (The Guardian) (NBC News) (BBC News) )(El País)
Credits:
- Nominated by Ornithoptera (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Clairvius Narcisse (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Tragic death of an important figure at the local level. Ornithoptera (talk) 08:24, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose in current state: barely 200 words. Moscow Mule (talk) 11:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- wait article was created after this person died. brings the subjects notability for having an article into question. could be nominated for deletion soon. JM (talk) 13:00, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Per WP:JUDGE, they're likely notable. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 15:43, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- and perhaps tangential, but the article says they dont know if it was homicide or accident and theres no evidence of third-party entry so "tragic killing" is speculative JM (talk) 15:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Same deal with Vivian Silver, which is marked "Ready" below. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:35, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support First non-binary judge in Latin America, article has substantially been expanded since nomination. Definitely RD worthy. --NoonIcarus (talk) 23:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Per above. - José Gnudista (talk) 01:36, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Article in a very good shape and well-sourced. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 09:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Title of the submission has been changed to their full name, why? Shouldn't it be their preferred name (which matches with the article title) instead? ChaotıċEnby(talk) 17:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Reply. Not true. I changed the target article following a page move (discussed on its talk page) in this edit, but the original nomination used the full legal name from the outset, and that I didn't touch. Maybe it was a breach of protocol to change the target article; apols if that's the case, I just wanted to skip a redirect. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:24, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Reply Thank you for the heads up @Chaotic Enby:, at the time I had nominated the article, a variety of news sources that I had seen their name referred with using their deadname. For example, The Guardian's "Jesús Ociel Baena, who used they/them pronouns, was celebrated across Latin America for their work to advance the rights of the LGBTQ+ community" and I had thus presumed that was their preferred name. Since that information is now outdated I will update the RD nomination to reflect their preferred name. Ornithoptera (talk) 21:47, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Reply. Not true. I changed the target article following a page move (discussed on its talk page) in this edit, but the original nomination used the full legal name from the outset, and that I didn't touch. Maybe it was a breach of protocol to change the target article; apols if that's the case, I just wanted to skip a redirect. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:24, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Title of the submission has been changed to their full name, why? Shouldn't it be their preferred name (which matches with the article title) instead? ChaotıċEnby(talk) 17:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Not ready Unreferenced date of birth / place of birth. Schwede66 21:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Updated with sources regarding their birthdate and birthplace. Ornithoptera (talk) 09:08, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Ready to go. Good job. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:56, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 11:03, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
(Closed) RD: Don Walsh
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://news.usni.org/2023/11/13/retired-navy-capt-don-walsh-deep-sea-submariner-and-ocean-explorer-dies-at-92
Credits:
- Nominated by Yeti-Hunter (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Supportonce bare URLstag is removed. Article isn't perfect, but only has 2 cn tags. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 17:53, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Outstanding cn tags. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose I have nominated the article and later I tried to fix/set some of the missing cn tags. However I found out later in that process that a significant part seems to be copied from the website https://www.bluebird-electric.net/submarines/SeaLab_US_Navy_Underwater_Research_Laboratory.htm. The article should be carefully reworked byy an experienced native speaker.Yeti-Hunter (talk) 05:39, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Snowclose due to what Yeti-Hunter has just said JM (talk) 05:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
November 13
November 13, 2023
(Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
Sports
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(Posted) RD: Tengiz Kitovani
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty
Credits:
- Nominated by Alsoriano97 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One of the leaders of the 1991–1992 Georgian coup d'état. I see that the article is in good condition. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:10, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Appropriate depth of coverage, AGF on off-line references. SpencerT•C 17:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 00:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Vivian Silver
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/israel-gaza-vivian-silver-1.7027333 , https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/missing-peace-activist-confirmed-to-have-been-killed-in-oct-7-hamas-onslaught/
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by ForsythiaJo (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Ploni (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Israeli peace activist, died on October 7 but not identified until recently ForsythiaJo (talk) 00:20, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- oppose died over a month ago 5.44.170.53 (talk) 06:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- see WP:ITNRD
"Recently died" means their death was announced within the last seven days.
Her death has just been announced so she qualifies for RD despite having been killed over a month ago. consider withdrawing your !oppose? JM (talk) 06:11, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- see WP:ITNRD
- Support yes, she qualifies for RD. Article looks good enough. Terrible news. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:43, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - cited enough and still qualifies for RD per JM2023 ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 14:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Well-cited enough. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 15:45, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Well-cited, comprehensive article. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 15:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. A well-referenced article; qualifies for RD per JM. Nsk92 (talk) 17:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support per above JM (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 07:20, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Ongoing: Myanmar civil war
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Irrawady
Credits:
- Nominated by Chaotic Enby (talk · give credit)
Nominator's comments: On top of the currently blurbed Operation 1027, there is also the simultaneous Operation 1107, and the rapid changes and announcements of new operations are a better fit for an Ongoing nomination. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 22:25, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support once blurb rolls off. The simultaneous offensives and seeming slow collapse of junta forces has kicked up media coverage of the war enough. The Kip 22:39, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Wait I would wait until the ITN Blurb expires, then I think it would be good to add. TheTubaTitan (talk) 22:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support after blurb rolls off - Per Kip, unless any significant major events happen before then PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support at rolloff per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Supportonce blurb is off. The civil war has been receiving significant coverage for some time. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 18:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support once Blurb Rolls off Others make the point above. TheCorriynial (talk) 02:29, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support at roll of per The Kip
- 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 ☎️ 📄 13:12, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support at rolloff per above Lukt64 (talk) 13:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- While acknowledging that every item in Ongoing has some element of WP:CRYSTAL in it, I've got to ask - how long do we expect to keep this here? Myanmar's been in a civil war since 1948. —Cryptic 19:12, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- There have been insurgencies since 1948, yes, but the civil war we're talking about is the fight against the military junta (& Tatmadaw) since 2021. Once the blurb rolls off and we can post it to Ongoing, we should use the same criteria as for other items there: if the fighting slows enough so that we don't have newsworthy updates, say, every week (like it was before Operation 1027 started), we can remove it from Ongoing. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 20:47, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support after roll off. Per all of the above. The civil war is once again getting significant coverage considering that soldiers from the junta army have either attempted to defect or have surrendering to the rebels. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 12:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: M. Russell Ballard
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): KSL, Fox 13 Utah
Credits:
- Nominated by TheTubaTitan (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: President of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints TheTubaTitan (talk) 17:53, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support After a cursory glance at the article, I think it looks fine. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 18:58, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - sourced well enough ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 19:53, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Article is of suficiant quality. NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 21:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Good enough for posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:46, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support for all reasons listed above. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 22:55, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Sufficiently news worthy passing 2601:681:0:470:DDB2:C459:6FEA:D73B (talk) 22:56, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Newsworthiness is irrelevant to RDs. Newsworthiness is only relevant to blurbs. Yet another reason why they should be split apart. JM (talk) 23:12, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Procedural support meets requirements This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:39, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 06:05, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Maryanne Trump Barry
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
- Nominated by Davey2116 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former U.S. federal judge (1983–1999, 1999–2011), and sister of Donald Trump. Davey2116 (talk) 15:55, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support I did a quick scan and the article seems fine. Unlike most RD articles this one seems to be OK (because the proximity of the subject to a very controversial and divisive political figure makes it interesting to various editors probably) JM (talk) 16:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Adequate for RD. Moscow Mule (talk) 17:41, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support good enough. AryKun (talk) 17:47, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Good enough for posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:27, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Just a second Source 10 is taged as "unreliable source?". It would be good if it could be fixed before posting her article. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:17, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Alsoriano97: Fixed. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks! Ready to go _-_Alsor (talk) 21:56, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Alsoriano97: Fixed. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- S-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 06:02, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
(Closed) UK cabinet reshuffle
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Former UK PM David Cameron (pictured) returns as Foreign Secretary as Rishi Sunak reshuffles his cabinet. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNBC, DW, France24, NYT, Washington Post
Credits:
- Nominated by Andrew Davidson (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Alextheconservative (talk · give credit) and Eilidhmax (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Support Biggest news out of british politics since the king's coronation early this year Lukt64 (talk) 14:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose due to it not being important enough. It's interesting that Sunak has sacked Braverman, moved Cleverly & brought Cameron - who hasn't been an MP for over 7 y - back into the cabinet. However, it doesn't have much of an effect & there's no indication of significant policy changes as a result. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 14:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support First time a former PM has served in cabinet since Douglas-Home Alextheconservative (talk) 14:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose a cabinet reshuffle? Seriously? This apparently last happened less than a year ago, so this is definitely not notable enough. Just the fact that the Tories are currently well past scraping the bottom of the barrel for whoever they can shove into a ministerial post does not make this worth posting. AryKun (talk) 14:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose We do not post US cabinet level firings and we are not posting this. Cabinet reshuffles are one of the most common things out there (we have already had 5! in the last two years in the UK alone the article tells me); that a former UK PM has now become a minister (not the first time either) is not the main story and should not take away from the routineness of it. If David Cameron's appointment is what this is nom is based on, it should be a separate ITN nom, though I doubt the "comeback" (WP:CRYSTALBALL) of a former top dog would be notable enough. Gotitbro (talk) 14:58, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose not an infrequent event in the current government. Polyamorph (talk) 14:59, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose the joke that made no one laugh. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:52, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Amusing, but perhaps more suited for DYK. Davey2116 (talk) 15:58, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Cabinet reshuffles are not ITN-worthy. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 16:24, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose although interesting to see British politicians continue to act like they're all in The Thick of It, a cabinet reshuffle is not significant, and a former head of government who quit way back in 2016 taking a new, different, lesser job in 2023 is not significant. JM (talk) 16:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support - don't understand some of the opposes here. Unlike most of the rubbish that gets featured on ITN, this is historic, and most importanly, encyclopaedic - Cameron coming back, Braverman being sacked again and Sunak gearing up for an election will shape the next decade of British politics if this delivers a Labour win. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 17:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- If? Aaron Liu (talk) 17:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Isn't the Labour win a foregone conclusion? ITN isn't a UK news ticker and shouldn't become one just because the Tories keep finding dumber ways to create news. AryKun (talk) 17:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
will shape the next decade of British politics if this delivers a Labour win.
- WP:CRYSTAL. If we’re posting this because of what it might do, now that’s rubbish. The Kip 18:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Major changes at two of the Great Offices of State. And because blue man drives car faster than anyone else has been up there getting free advertising for five days. Moscow Mule (talk) 17:18, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Just because Brits call them the Great Offices doesn't make them great. Every country has the exact same offices and replaces the people occupying them frequently; what makes the UK doing this in any way notable and not just DYK trivia? AryKun (talk) 17:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Most people in the UK could not give a flying fig about this "news". Let alone the rest of the world. Polyamorph (talk) 18:06, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Just because Brits call them the Great Offices doesn't make them great. Every country has the exact same offices and replaces the people occupying them frequently; what makes the UK doing this in any way notable and not just DYK trivia? AryKun (talk) 17:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Domestic level politics and not a significant enough event to merit ITN blurbing - cabinet shuffles are not an unusual event. I often feel that accusations of “pro-American/British bias” on ITN are badly exaggerated, but posting this would indeed be a prime example of said bias - we would almost certainly never consider posting the same for any other country. The Kip 17:58, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose This is the seventh new foreign secretary and seventh new home secretary since Brexit, and the second time in just over a year that the same woman has left in controversy. Yes Cameron is recognisable, but were John Kerry and Hillary Clinton posted as recognisable new secretaries? This would not be even suggested for posting if it was in a non-Anglophone country of similar population and influence such as France or Germany, or probably even if it were in India or China Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The only interesting thing about this is the Government being so devoid of actual talent that it needed to bring back Cameron over 349 other MPs, I bet they are really happy. Oh, and a minister for anti-wokeness. You couldn't make it up. Actually, I'm making it sound newsworthy. It isn't. Black Kite (talk) 18:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Post-Closing Support - It seems strange that for a section literally called 'In The News' we don't seem to cover what is actually in the news often. We're not a UK Politics ticker, instead we have become a 'Tragic Disasters and Sports' ticker. Can anyone please tell me with a straight face that the Japan Baseball Series is more notable and generated more coverage than this? See you next week for the Uzbekistan Darts Championship or whatever we post next instead of something actually useful to the general reader PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
November 12
November 12, 2023
(Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and incidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports
|
India tunnel collapse
Blurb: An underground tunnel in Uttarakhand, India collapses, trapping 40 workers. (Post)
News source(s): [19][20]
Credits:
- Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
- Created by DSP2092 (talk · give credit)
Yes, the original incident happened several days ago, but it was not nominated/posted. Seems to be garnering a lot of worldwide coverage, especially around the ongoing rescue efforts. Natg 19 (talk) 21:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment – the article could do with an expansion. Schwede66 22:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The article is still little more than a stub. Nigej (talk) 17:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
(Closed) First successful eye transplantation
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: In the United States, surgeons at the NYU Langone Health have announced the first successful eye transplantation. (Post)
News source(s): WaPo - BBC - Smithsonian - France24 - The Guardian
Credits:
- Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
- Created by Harjk (talk · give credit)
- Updated by No Swan So Fine (talk · give credit), Little pob (talk · give credit), WhatamIdoing (talk · give credit), Maxim Masiutin (talk · give credit) and Atakhanli (talk · give credit)
- Support in principle once the article is brought up to front page standard, clearly a huge scientific achievement and it was in the news all over This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Support Having a successful eye transplant is a notable event in medical and scientific history. Rager7 (talk) 20:22, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose for now due to quality of article but support on notability. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 20:42, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Oppose for now Due to quality issues, but support in principle due to this being a notable event in medicine.Centuries123 (talk) 21:15, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose on the basis that this was initially misleading. It isn't as notable if it is only cosmetic and the eye itself doesn't function. Centuries123 (talk) 18:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Oppose on quality, support on notability per above. Genuinely significant medical breakthrough.The Kip 21:55, 12 November 2023 (UTC)- The more I read about it, the more it seems this is a misleading story; it's uncertain whether the patient will actually regain sight in the eye, making this effectively an advancement in cosmetic surgery rather than the breakthrough I initially believed it was. As such, switching vote to oppose. The Kip 05:33, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose if nothing else but on quality. Lot of work still needed with the article. But I will say, if this is indeed a "watershed" moment in medicine, the article should make this clear. But from a surface-level perspective, the patient in question can't see with the new eye. I think this story becomes more more notable if that happens. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose, cosmetic surgery, being blown out of proportion by the media, the eye cannot see. Stephen 22:35, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Needs work It seems that that it was more of a face transplant. The eye seems mainly cosmetic and the chances of vision in it seem uncertain and small. And it can't said to be successful until some time has passed to check for rejection and/or recovery. Also note that eye transplants have been done in other creatures before and so we'd need to make it clear that this is for humans, if claiming a first. See here for some history. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:41, 12 November 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)
- Weak support. The article definitely needs improvement, but this is certainly a notable event. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 00:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. its a face transplant with a side of hype. The eye will not be able to see; it's shameful that the doctors hyped this lie to the uneducated dolts in the lay media. Abductive (reasoning) 05:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose misleading; the transplanted eye is not a functional organ; it's an advancement in face transplantion rather than a revolution in opthalmology. JM (talk) 05:30, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose I agree with JM2023, very misleading. According to the article linked, the recipient Aaron James hadn't even regained sight in that eye and the optic nerve isn't even communicating with his brain. Sure, it's an advancement in face transplantation just like JM2023 pointed out, but in no way is this really revolutionary. TwistedAxe [contact] 12:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose assuming the eye is non-functional, which makes it a cosmetic advancement rather than a functional one. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 16:23, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Just a reminder that Human eye#Movement is also a function. Certainly not the most impressive or best-known thing they do. But definitely mechanical and structural, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:20, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Are eye muscles functional parts of eyes? When people talk about eye function they mean vision. Do lungs count as functional if they're moving due to the diaphragm and intercostal muscles even if they're not exchanging gases? JM (talk) 20:25, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Partially functional, yeah (or dysfunctional, in pessimistic terms). InedibleHulk (talk) 20:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Are eye muscles functional parts of eyes? When people talk about eye function they mean vision. Do lungs count as functional if they're moving due to the diaphragm and intercostal muscles even if they're not exchanging gases? JM (talk) 20:25, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Just a reminder that Human eye#Movement is also a function. Certainly not the most impressive or best-known thing they do. But definitely mechanical and structural, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:20, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
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